Sunday, 30 July 2017

Warhammer: Orcs & Goblins 8th Ed 1.0 out now!

Clocking in at 216 pages, this is by far my longest book to date (though likely to be beaten by at least the Empire and High Elves when they are finished)! This book comes with plenty of new characters and units, extended information on all Waaaghs!, greenskin society, tribes and a bunch of short stories previously printed in various White Dwarfs throughout the ages. In short, this would be your ultimate tome of everything Orcs and Goblin related in Warhammer.

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New features/changes include:
  • New Lord choice: Forest Goblin Warboss.
  • New Lord choice: Forest Goblin Great Shaman.
  • New Hero choice: Forest Goblin Big Boss.
  • New Hero choice: Forest Goblin Shaman.
  • New Hero choice: Orc Warchanter (from AoS)
  • New Special Unit: Goblin Nasty Skulkers (stand-alone skirmish/scout unit).
  • New Unit Upgrade: Goblin Jesters (from Citadel Journal).
  • New Rare unit: Gore-gruntas (from AoS).
  • New Special Character: Gorfang Rotgut (from 5th Ed).
  • New Special Character: Morglum Necksnapper (from 5th Ed).
  • New Special Character: The Black Gobbo (from US GW site).
  • New Special Character: Borgut Facebeater (from Storm of Chaos).
  • New Special Character: Badruk 'Eadsplitta (2000 Games Day model).
  • New Special Character: Bigfeet Bonehead (from Citadel Journal).
  • Characters may only join models of the same type (so you cannot have a Savage Orc or Goblin Warboss leading a unit of common orcs for instance).
  • Great Cave Squigs have S6.
  • Mangler Squigs are no longer Armour Piercing.
  • Improved statline for Colossal Squigs.
  • Nerfed statline and special rules of Squig Gobba to be more on par with Great Cave Squigs.
  • Removed "extra boingy" since it's hardly ever being used.
  • Changed "get 'em" result on Animosity table to only affect units within 3".
  • Gorbad Ironclaw 335 pts, no longer auto-dies when fleeing like normal BSB's. 
  • Azhag 460 pts, have Daemon Staff magic item that gives +1 to cast.
  • Grimgor 320 pts, have MR(1) magic item.
  • Wurrzag 330 points.
  • Grom 240 pts.
  • Skarsnik 265 pts.
  • Gitilla 70 pts.
  • Snagla Grobspit 90 pts.
  • Snotlings 15 pts.

As you can see, I've included rules for both Gore-gruntas and Warchanters from Age of Sigmar, as requested. I decided to not include separate rules for Brutes and Mawkrushas as these can already be represented by Big 'Uns and Wyverns. So now Orcs and Goblins have both MC and a support character which adds something new to their roster.

I will leave to you guys to read it through and let me know of any bugs and other issues as usual. In 1-2 weeks I'll upload a new update as well as the 9th ed version. Cheers!

46 comments:

  1. skullmuncha is listed as strength and toughness 4. so on par with a sabertusk and capable of being bullied by a demigryph and losing his lunch money.

    amazing work. looking forward to getting into the lore.

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  2. Uh-huh... Wyverns and Maw-krushas are too different to be lumped into a single thing (Maw-krushas are as different from Wyverns as regular dragons are). One is like a giant, flying snake; the other is a giant, flying, scaly rhino. In fact, both of them still exist separately in AoS to this day.

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    1. True, but Maw-krushas are not officially apart of the Warhammer World, only Age of Sigmar. Still, I'll see if I can work them in with some unique rules.

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    2. They're basically giant dragon-like beasts, and can fit seamlessly within oldhammer as well. As for rules, you might want to look here: http://eefl.freeforums.net/thread/251/new-orcs-goblins-units-edition
      (Unless if this is bad practice or something, I don't know)

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  3. -I would tweak Size Matters a little so that Orc characters can join any eligible unit but goblin characters can't join orc units. An orc could easily bully his way into leading goblins if a scenario occurs where all the nearby orc units have been cut down and while Black Orcs consider themselves superior to the other varieties, they'll have to acknowledge that the Savage/Normal Orc Boss/Shaman is in a superior position for now.
    -Maybe Warchanters should be like conventional priests with bound spells. They'd be Toughness 5 and Initiative 2 instead. The first spell involves Gork and grants the Warchanters unit Devastating Charge. The second spell involves Mork and grants the Warchanters unit an extra march move, which becomes a charge if it allows the unit to reach an enemy unit.
    -The amount of units that can be upgraded to Big Uns should be the same as the amount of duplicate rare choices an army can have with Black Orcs and Gore Gruntas counting towards this limit. It's quite simple, bigger armies have more Big Uns.
    -On page 112, the box containing the statlines for Savage Orc Shamans has the Savage Orc Great Shaman font become tiny.
    -I don't see why having an Orc Bully present at a war machine would cause the goblins to no longer fear elves. If you don't remove that part then you should make it that goblin units led by an orc character no longer fear elves.
    -Isn't the Snotling Pump Wagon supposed to be Strength 5?
    -Since Gnarla and Spleenrippa have been described as exceptionally big war boars, they should be Gore-Gruntas instead of War Boars.
    -There should be two versions of War Chanters. A Savage version and a regular version.
    -Why did you remove the ability for Nasty Skulkers to hide in a Goblin unit?
    -I think that regular trolls should have access to additional hand weapons and great weapons like chaos trolls.
    -Gore Gruntas should have a Savage Orc version and a regular version.

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    1. - Gruntas are massive boar-like beasts not war boars so Gnarla and Spleenrippa are not gruntas. They are just exceptionally big war boars as you said.
      - Gamesworkshop released only one version of warchanters and gore-grustas. They didn't release savage orc version of these units.
      - Regular trolls should have access to additional hand weapons and great weapons like chaos trolls? Not possible as there aren't any troll miniatures with additional hand weapons but the chaos trolls.

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    2. - Maybe, it's a bit of an issue with the base sizes though.
      - That does not really fit with their fluff, as only shamans can tap into the great green. Warchanter have a psychologial effect only.
      - It might be better to allow one unit of Big Un's for each Orc Warboss in the army, Savage Orc Warboss allow for Savage Orc Big 'Uns, Orc/Black Orc Warboss allow for Orc Big 'Uns.
      - That's because the name is too long to fit otherwise. Might make it take up two rows instead.
      - True, I will remove it.
      - I have to check that, I think it was S4 in the 8th ed book actually.
      - Gore-gruntas a different species, so it does not really fit.
      - There's only models for normal Orc Warchanter though. Don't think we need to have one of each type for everything.
      - I based on Warhammer Total War actually, and it gives O&G a scout unit. They have the jester as an upgrade instead.
      - None of the official models have that though. Great weapons are a maybe, but usually the models have a mix of weapons, unlike the chaos trolls.
      - No models available for it.

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    3. I'm suggesting the use of weapon options for trolls and savage and black variants of Gore-Gruntas and Warchanters for the sake of people who love to make conversions.

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    4. Fair enough, but the amount of people who would go through the trouble to do are practically slim to none in this case, and the O&G bestiary is big enough as-is.

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  4. - Aren't Warchanters and Gore-gruntas supposed to be Black Orcs aka Ironjawz?
    - What about the Grot Scuttlings/Spider-Goblins in Silver Tower? They're now officially canon and described as Chaos-tainted (Night) Goblins.

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    1. - Not really, they have way less armour than a Black Orc. They are a mix of black orcs and normal boyz, which means Big Un's would probably fit best.
      - I considered them, but they both hard to get outside the Silver Tower box, have very little in terms of background, and I've never read anything that mentions greenskins being suseptible to mutations, so not so sure it fits.

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    2. If I remember correctly Chaos Goblins used to exist in an older edition, perhaps Realm of Chaos. The difficulty of acquiring their models isn't a problem imo seeing how people can always make conversions, and after some time GW is going to make them available individually anyway (like what they did to every other model that originate in one of their boxed games).

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    3. Will need to look into that one. I guess you could say they dwell too close to Warpstone or something, but overall, I'm not a big fan of them. Might make some separate rules for them I guess.

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  5. First of all, thanks so much for all your hard work. I really appreciate it! I've given it a quick skim.
    The Arachnarok Spider is 290 points if taken as a mount by a Forest Goblin Great Shaman, but only 260 by itself. Is that right?
    The line "You must have at least one Night Goblin Herder for every three Cave Squigs. These models are added at no additional cost." implies you can take infinite Herders for free. I'd drop the "at least".

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    1. - 260 pts would be the correct one.
      - Will fix.

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  6. - The rule Size matters isn't clear, it doesn't specify any in-game effects of fleeing goblin units. I know it should be ignore panic, but the writing does not say so.
    - A normal/savage orc character can join a black orc unit?
    - Do the gore-gruntas count as a big'un unit? If not, can you field a regular big'un unit and a gore-grunta unit in the same army?
    - Forest goblin shamans have Stupidity in the bestiary, but not in the army list.
    - Do the snotlings count as the minimum percentage of core units?
    -Snotling pump wagon have S4 on bestiary and S5 on army list
    -Rogue Idol of Gork, A4 on bestiary and A5 on army list.

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    Replies
    1. - Will fix.
      - No, not with the current rules.
      - No they do not. Yes, you can.
      - Will fix.
      - Currently, they do. Will add an execption to them, Snotling armies are not really fitting ;)
      - Will fix.
      - Will fix.

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  7. Hi,
    Loving the work you have done with the O&G army book. I have a few questions regarding trolls. Given the nerf to regeneration compared to 8th ed, is there a reason trolls are now 40pts instead of 35? (Your Beastmen Army Book has chaos trolls costed at 35pts). Also, Stone trolls still don't seem to be worth paying 10pts for the upgrade. Magic resistance is situational at best and 5+ scaly skin will mostly be ineffective in combat (which is where you want trolls to be). Perhaps a 5pt upgrade for stone trolls or maybe rework them to have a +1 toughness instead? Just a thought. Maybe I'm biased but trolls seem a bit underpowered now compared to say minotaurs/rat ogres who are similar points (Most armies bring fire thesedays). As it stands, trolls are easily outperformed by Black Orcs in 9th edition. Just my 2 cents.

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    1. I will look into it. However, 5+ save alone is worth 6 pts on a 3W model, the MR is debatable though.

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  8. I think we should not just give the Black Orcs Two hand weapons and Great weapon from the beginning and only have one option that give them shields. Why don't we just give them one hand weapons and give them options that they must take shields or great weapons or additional hand weapons.

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    1. I don't really have problem with that, but I think the models themselves come with a mix of two hand weapons and great weapons, not sure if it is possible to assemble all models in the box with just one of each weapon option.

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    2. Black Orcs are fine as is. Just a solid special choice. I agree that Trolls should probably revert back to 35pts though.

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  9. brutes=big uns? are you serious??? brutes are bigger black orcs not normal orcs....and big uns in lore are weaker and smaller then black orcs

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    1. Big 'Un are probably what they would fit best as. The models themselves do not really have a Black Orc look about them; too little armour, especially on their backs. And making Brutes their own unit would not really fit either, as bigger Orcs they would simply become big bosses in the army rather than grouping up on their own.

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  10. After finish all of your planed works. Plz consider to make a book that contain all of the AoS models and armies that do not fit WFB lore such as the stormcast, special characters, sylvaneth etc. The book name maybe "Warriors of The Age of Sigmar". Not necessary but I really want to play those models using WFB rules :))))))

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    1. That's the plan. Those models that would work within the Old World are getting added to the respective army books, the rest will get separate downloads.

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    2. Cool! Thank for reply.

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  11. Would be possible to include "Ruglud" special character? or myabe this character fitt better in a Chaos Storm expansion?

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    1. Ruglud is a Regiments of Renown character, and as such can already be downloaded in that book ;)

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  12. Quick question not related to the new book, I noticed that Nagash isn't in the Tomb Kings book, will he be included in the Vampire Counts one?

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    1. I have not quite decided yet. Nagash in his current state does not really fit in either of these books as he is neither Tomb King, Liche Priest or Vampire. However, I will at the least make a separate release for him with his backstory from 4th ed included.

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    2. Honestly, I always thought he belonged more to Vampire Counts over Tomb Kings. Because while Nagash was from the Tomb Kings era, a lot of undead in the books seem to be a direct result of Nagash's work. Really, the only model that's Nagash made from Tomb Kings is Arkhan the Black, everything else over on that book seems to be more of its own rituals than the Necromancy Nagash uses.

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    3. Yeah, the current incarnation of him would fit better with VC than TK. However, as he is not a Vampire is even a normal Necromancer, he does not really fit there either.

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  13. Hi Mathias

    - Would you consider giving Forest Goblins a blowpipe option? I know the models don't officially exist but it would really fit with the fluff I think. They could be Multiple Shots (2) without the Stand and Fire to differentiate from short bows.
    - Do you think Snotlings should have the expendable special rule? As it stands, the Size Matters rule doesn't even apply to them so you could modify that instead to include the fact that Orcs & Goblins aren't affected by Snotlings.
    - I agree in reducing the standard troll price to 35 points. However, you haven't clarified the amount of Regen they get (I know it should be 4+, but you would ordinarily write Regeneration (4). In addition, in their vomit attack description, you mention that they can still use their Stomp attack. I was under the impression Monstrous Infantry no longer have Stomp.
    - I would also consider giving Nasty Skulkers the Ambushers Special Rule. That way players can choose whether to Scout them or Ambush. O&G players don't currently have an ambusher unit.

    Further thoughts on other comments:
    - Wouldn't be fussed about the addition of Maw Krushas but if you were to include them then I think they should have a seperate listing from Wyverns
    - Regarding Characters in Size Matters, I would allow any character to join any regiment. However, you could modify to suggest that the unit would only benefit from the Character's Ld if they were of a 'lesser' type. You may then need to add clarification on the Skarsnik and Grom to say they can lead all unit types.
    - Keep Warchanters, Gruntas etc as they are. I think you've done a good job of integrating them and your rationale is sound. I would also save the goblin scuttling thingys for any future AoS integration release. I don't think they would add anything particularly to the current fluff.
    - I like the Armed to Da Teef rule for Black Orcs - it distinguishes them from other Hard Hitting special infantry so would keep that as it is. The only change I would make would be to automatically include Shields as part of that rule - maybe increase their points cost accordingly.

    Anyway, as an enthusiastic Greenskin player, I'm loving the work. Thank you.

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    1. Further thoughts on Nasty Skulkers:

      - They used to have Armour Piercing in 8th and in TW:W. Therefore I would give them Armour Piercing (1). This fits with their fluff and their extra sharp daggers.
      - in TW:W they have smoke bombs that give a debuff to enemy speed. The fluff is that it slows enemy units to allow the Skulkers to either get more kills or to get away easier. This could translate in 9th as a D6 roll at the end of combat if either side fails a break test. On a 4+ all units (apart from the Skulkers) roll one fewer D6 on their flee or pursuit roll. This would mean friendly units could also be affected and fits with the Greenskins possibility of doing as much damage to themselves as the enemy...

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    2. - While I could see it fit for their style, they have only ever had short bows on their models. With that in mind, I'd prefer to keep them as-is.
      - They will have in the 9th ed version. I will add them to the size matters rule though.
      - This is the 8th ed version, where Regen is always 4+ unless specified. In the 9th ed version it will say 4+.
      - Skirmishing ambushers is not really that common, it's usually either scout or ambush, not both.
      - AP is usually reserved for those weapons that specialised is piercing armour, such as handguns. Though I suppose one could argue that the nasty skulkers specialise in stabbing in the armour joints and such. I can add it back in.
      - Smoke bombs seem a little too complex for greenskins imo. Though maybe it would if you would go along the route of them using special puffball mushrooms...

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    3. - Fair enough, that's as expected tbh.
      - My bad - forgot this was the 8th version.
      - Understood
      - I think being able to stab at the enemies soft spots is a key part of the Skulkers. Even the description in the Bestiary states 'When the time is right, they leap out and strike, causing lethal piercing damage before scurrying away under a confounding cloud of smoke'. Agree that bombs doesn't really fit their style though; the puffball mushrooms is an inspired idea...!

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    4. I really like the idea of the Goblin Skulkers, but I don't think we should be carried away with special abilities when they are probably more optimistic than skilled.
      Actual Nipponese ninjas, and units close to their skill such as Gutter Runners, Mandrakes and Shadow Warriors, do not have AP on their melee attacks.
      I DO really like the idea of Friend & Foe smoke bombs though. Giving them actual ninja-smokebombs would be too accomplished for a greenskin, but in this way you can have something effective and yet representative of greenskin "taktiks".

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  14. Hi Mr Eliasson!
    first off, let me congratulate you on your work, it is excellent. it is so good, that it is the very reason that convinced me to try wargaming in general( I am a first timer in the hobby).

    I was always intrugued with warhammer, so I had to chose between the ninth age and your work, and you won by a fair margin due to your massive expansion on the nations and creativity in rules and units to mold a fantastic and fair game for every faction involved.
    A heartfelt cogratulations to your dedication and love for the game!

    With that out of the way, I have a very stupid question regarding your plans:

    1.-Are there any possibility for the end times incarnates to be included on your work?
    2.- If so, are you planning similar lords for the other nations?

    Of course, this is not a demand, just simple curiosity due to my fascination with those special characters.

    Thank you for your time and please continue spreading your love for this magnificent game!

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    1. Hi, glad to hear that!

      As for your questions; I've decided to keep the setting before the End Times/Storm of Chaos, and as such the various Incarnates in the End Times will not appear.

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  15. I have a unit of giant cave squig, used to be a scroll of binding and have models via Kromlech Gnaws, just wondering if you were going to include them, if need screenshots of scrolls let me know

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    1. Right now I'm not plannin on making a separate unit of Giant Squigs as they normally need someone to goad them into battle, which these Giant Squigs would not have. They will be included if I make an update to Storm of Magic though.

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  16. Hey, great work on the army book, looking forward to using it. on the topic of MawKrushaz, brutes, warchanters and Gore-Gruntas, i seem to recall that back in the old rpgs there was a race of orcs called iron ors, who were supposed to be bigger than even black orcs. its nothing important, just if you decide to add brutes you could always say that Ironjaw orcs are iron orcs, regardless amazing work.

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    1. That's true, Iron Orcs are mentioned in WFRP2 actually. I'll see if I can work them into the army book.

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  17. What are your thoughts on giving normal Orc Big'Un infantry the option to upgrade to Great Weapons? O&G only have Black Orcs as a GW variant (unless I am mistaken). Standard Orc Boyz had them in 4th but this way, it forces the player to give deeper thought on their big'un selection.

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